LJC Community Conversation: A View of Latin Jazz In The Greater Jazz World
I’m starting a new series today entitled LJC Community Conversations. The purpose of this series is to explore major ideas in the Latin Jazz world together as a community and inspire conversation through comments. My main motivator here is my belief that LJC readers hold a great deal of knowledge and passion around Latin Jazz, and I think that we can learn something from everyone. Whether you’re a seasoned Latin Jazz performer or a newcomer to the music, leave a comment and let your voice be heard!
We’ll start our Community Conversation series focusing upon the greater jazz world’s view of Latin Jazz . . .
As the year has closed, I’ve been following the jazz best of 2007 lists around the internet. Jazztimes provided a list of the year’s top 50 jazz releases, and it completely rejected all the Latin Jazz releases. All About Jazz provided their top picks from contributors; again a list of 39 neglected any Latin Jazz releases. New York’s Village Voice magazine published their list of 50 best jazz releases of 2007, which again didn’t include any Latin Jazz - instead they created a separate Latin category in which each of their critics could place one vote (as opposed to the 10 selections they could make in the general jazz category). There were fifty critics, but 27 of them chose to skip the Latin category completely. iTunes published four short best jazz of 2007 lists, which, as predicted, leaned towards commercially popular albums and overlooked Latin Jazz. This represents a small portion of opinions, but as it stands - in a year of numerous outstanding Latin Jazz releases, four influential jazz media voices snubbed Latin Jazz.
I may write this off, but in reality, this is not the first time that I’ve run across the degradation of Latin Jazz by the jazz world. As a musician, I’ve heard many jazz musicians complain about having to do “another Latin gig.” On the gig, I’ve seen them phone in their performance, or even worse, completely struggle through the music. As an educator, I’ve had colleagues, community members, and more complain about me sharing Latin Jazz with the students. When I take my Latin Jazz group to festivals, judges consistently tell the students that they are not playing jazz. A judge once told my students that a jazz festival was a place for serious music and they should go play Latin music down the street at the mall. I’ve flipped through many jazz publications searching for a Latin Jazz feature, only to be disappointed. I’ve heard radio announcers, concert promoters, and more announce “spicy” Latin Jazz or jazz with “hot” Latin rhythms; these are good commercial marketing terms for sure, but they completely downplay the artistic integrity of the music. After too many experiences, I’ve come to the conclusion that many jazz circles look down upon the use of Latin rhythms.
After much thought, I’ve come to several conclusions and some questions about the state of Latin Jazz today.
1. Latin Jazz has grown in popularity tremendously over the past ten years, and in many ways, portions of the jazz community support it.
For every negative example I find, a positive exists. Jazztimes recently published an article about the rising popularity of Latin Jazz. All About Jazz regularly features CD reviews and sometimes interviews and articles from Latin Jazz artists. A positive example exists in each area of the jazz community; yet in the majority of cases, the support is always limited.
2. Many major festivals include at least one spot for Latin Jazz programming in their overall schedule; a good step, but not enough.
One spot limits the possibilities for spotlighting musicians, and these jobs often go to the biggest Latin Jazz names or some times even salsa acts. How about a Latin Jazz mini-festival within a larger organization that allows for legendary musicians and new artists?
3. Maybe Latin Jazz shouldn’t be viewed as a piece of the jazz tradition, but rather as a unique musical genre.
The style certainly arose from a cross pollination between African-American jazz and Afro-Cuban rhythms, but it’s history has grown beyond that simple connection. Latin Jazz has split into many divergent performance styles with a variety of influences; a catch-all term doesn’t aptly describe everything happening in the Latin Jazz world today.
4. In general, most people just don’t understand Latin Jazz.
Traditional jazz artists have worked very hard to educate the community on jazz performance, listening, history, and appreciation - I get the sense that we haven’t done enough of that in the Latin Jazz world. While musician education around Afro-Cuban and Brazilian rhythms has increased tremendously, the general public still falls into the stereotypical view of the music that has existed for years.
I obviously have my bias about the importance of Latin Jazz in the greater jazz world, but I’d be curious in hearing your opinions. If you’re looking for some ideas to start, think about these questions:
- Have you experienced musicians, publications, educators, or critics downplaying the importance of Latin Jazz?
- Do you think that Latin Jazz should be approached with more respect?
- Do you view Latin Jazz as a completely separate entity or should it exist as a sub-category of jazz?
- Do jazz clubs in your area book Latin Jazz artists with any regularity?
JOIN THE CONVERSATION!
Leave a comment below with your thoughts on the matter - let’s sort through this issue together! We want every voice to be heard . . .agree with the post? Disagree? Let us know! Think that you don’t have something real to say - I think you do! I’d love to hear from every reader and get a feel for everyone’s thoughts.
In a hope to get more people involved, I’m holding a giving away two great Latin Jazz CDs. In order to qualify for the CDs, you’ll need to comment twice; once on this post and then once next Monday when I ask a related question. Both comments need to be substantial. Avoid brief yes or no answers; give us something to think about that adds to the conversation. At the end of the two weeks, I’ll pick the reader that provided the most meaningful comments.
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I play latin/salsa/world music ,and think it should be promoted as a unique musical genre,people who dont speak spanish ,or know latin culture love it,Portumayo Cds have proven that
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I agree Garcia; I think the appeal of Latin Jazz or Salsa has moved beyond racial or cultural barriers. In fact, I think that Latin music crossed the cultural divide back in the 40s with the Rhumba dance craze. Everybody wanted to rhumba . . . but noone really understood that they weren’t dancing rumba, only a watered down Latin mixture. I think that the issue lies more in the fact that people can’t distinguish between Enrique Inglesias and Tito Puente. Perhaps individual Lation genres should be promoted more intelligently.
Putayamo has done alot to bring world music to the masses. It’s great to see classic Salsa in all types of stores. That’s the type of label support that we need. I actually don’t own any Putayamo releases - do they come with liner notes that go into detail about the music? That would really help educate the public.
Thanks for your input Garcia, I’d be curious to hear your thoughts about promoting different Latin genres. I checked out your site and tried to stream the station, but had some problems with Live 365 - anywhere else? I’d love to hear your show.
The rising popularity of Latin Jazz is bringing an entirely new (and young) audience to the Jazz world in general. In a genre that has often been thought of as “non-hip” / “old folk’s music” (particularly by the young, non-musically inclined), the Latin Jazz artists have been able to reach out and engage the interest of a more mainstream audience. There may be some hesitation from the standard Jazz world to give credit to the Latin Jazz artists for this exact reason. Using terms such as “hot Latin jazz” to market the music may be part of the problem in a world that prides itself on “sophistication” (terms that I am “guilty” of using as well.)
A lot of traditional jazz fans are very narrow-minded,and can not see beyond classic bop.Latin jazz suffers from the same problem that other jazz sub-generes (fusion,free jazz) suffer from as far as the treatment from the traditional jazz press is concerned.
Beatriz - You bring up an interesting point about the ability of Latin Jazz to bring in a more mainstream audience than traditional jazz. It’s funny really - when jazz was young, it was dance music. It lost that association somewhere around bebop and turned into art music. Latin Jazz still allows people to dance while maintaining a sense of artistry. When people sit and observe art, they are detached from the experience. When they dance, they are part of the experience. I think that most people would prefer to be part of something rather than stand on the outside.
I often get stuck on the whole sophistication thing myself, but I think that Latin music moves beyond that. Latin rhythmic structures are quite sophisticated. I think that you’re right - for some reason the jazz world equates dancing and an audience connection in Latin Jazz with a lack of seriousness. I don’t think that we need to exclude our audience to make Latin Jazz serious music . . . great food for thought.
Thanks for some interesting ideas!
Luis, you make a great point - Latin Jazz is not the only extension of jazz that gets the cold shoulder. Fusion gets a bad rap just for utilizing rock rhythms - fusion artists are constantly criticized for “selling out” or being “too commercial.” While I do believe that some fusion artists are looking for a bigger paycheck, I can think of several fusion albums that integrated rock into their music artistically. I’ve got alot of resepect for that, just as I respect Latin Jazz artists.
Why do some people consider a swing rhythm to be a mandatory requirement for playing jazz? Advanced harmony and improvisation works in any rhythmic format; it doesn’t have to be swing. Maybe this all works back towards a bigger question - What Is Jazz?
That’s a pretty big question and one that’s been asked many times before. Hopefully we’ll find an answer soon . . .
Thanks for the good thoughts.
When I think of the word “Jazz”, it always amazes me to think of all the different genres it encompasses. As an excercise, try listing all the different types of music that fall under the ‘Jazz’ banner. When I think of “Latin Jazz” the same mindset is applicable. Let’s face it, there’s a whole universe of styles and structures available from EACH Latin country and yet the anglo/white/american Jazz community thinks that Latinjazz begins and ends in Cuba and/or Tito Puente. There used to be a website called ‘Jazzcentralstation’ that I used to hang out at. I was the loudest of a mere handful that would regularly try to sing the praises of Latin Jazz to the masses and lemmetellya, it was a very frustrating to see, not only the lack of interest, but the lack of willingness to try something new. Currently I hang at Jazzcorner.com and Allaboutjazz.com and it’s pretty much the same thing going on, total apathy. It’s amusing to me that at Jazzcorner I’m considered the “expert” when in reality all I’ve ever been is a fan with a big mouth! I’ve often wondered where all the Latin Jazz artists are, why don’t they try to convert some these gringos themselves? Instead, I’ll stop by the Yahoo Latin Jazz discussion group and find all these people who are actually in the business having this big discussion about how to pronounce a certain word!? Rarely do I find any discussion of NEW, Current releases. As a fan, I hardly ever participate in that forum because I rarely have interest in what’s being discussed, and I have a big mouth!!;) It’s truly a sad state of affairs but what’s a Latin Jazzer to do? Hell. how many Grammys has Charlie Haden won for best Latin Jazz record? You’re website is literally an oasis if for nothing else as a source for new releases (can you believe I never heard Marlon Simon? Rest assured that I will though!), but I can’t help but worry about the day that you’re either too busy or you lose interest, hope it never happens bro’!
Chazro, I you hit it right on the head - there are endless variations on Latin Jazz. We can talk about all the possibilities for including different rhythmic styles from the Caribbean and South America, different jazz approaches (big band, small group, smooth, free, and more), or different performance practices . . . the list goes on. It seems like alot of people lean towards the thought that Latin Jazz exists as an individual genre. There’s a relationship to jazz, but it’s got enough of a history to consider it outside the jazz realm.
I’ve had the same experience on forums; it really leaves you feeling like an outsider sometimes! I think what you are doing is important though - our music needs many voices supporting it. Regardless of whether you are an “expert” or not, I’m sure that you’re helping forum members take Latin Jazz more seriously. The more people hear that, the more they will respond. Traditional jazz had these same issues for many years, and looking at the bigger picture of the general public, I think jazz faces these challenges.
You’re inspiring me, I really to get onto forums more often, thanks for the reminder!
By the way, your big mouth is always welcome here, I appreciate all that you’ve got to say! Also . . . check out that Marlon Simon’s In Case You Missed It album - I think you’ll like it.
This last post (by Chazro) really hits it on the spot. (including his critic of the yahoo latin jazz group. So many great names on that group but the discussions are so dull).
Now to the matter at hand. Latin jazz is my passion. I’ll listen to jazz and classical as background music, but I “study” latin jazz, when I am listening to it. I probably have 4000+ latin jazz tunes on my ipod, and this leads me to this comment. It is so difficult to define latin jazz. It goes from the straight ahead jazz group with a conga drum in the rhythm section( ray barretto would probably fit in that caregory), to the “straight ahead salsa group” playing well orchestrated and harmonically complex instrumental music (new york vibes, I think or manhattan vibes i cant think of the name now, is a good example. A good middle man would be probably Eddie Palmieri. But anything in between can be classified as latin jazz, and somebody might be more into the danceable - easy to understand type, and another guy might prefer the other extreme, and refuse to label the other them as latin jazz, it is either jazz for one or salsa for others.
I just wanted to give a few of my thoughts on the subject, confirming that latin jazz should probably be not a single genre, but that we should start defining the multitudes of little genres in between.
I take this opprtunity to thank Chip for his initiatives for latin jazz in this group/blog. I hope to see this gets bigger.
p.s. a next subject of discussion would be the results of the votes. some I can live with, others I … can’t.
Food for thought.
Thank you and a very happy new year to all.
Wazzup Reg!
While I understand and agree with your point about ‘defining the multitude of genres…’ within Latin Jazz, I can’t help but think if we were to break it up it would even be harder to promote. If it’s hardly recognized as a single entity, imagine the confusion a rookie would face if it were divided. And yet, the other side of the coin is maybe a rookie would prefer to know if a recording was Latin Fusion, Latin Big Band, Latin Vocalese (of course, the ultimate reality in that in Latin Jazz, you can have ALL that and more on the same recording!;)
Speaking of possible future topics, something that’s always fried my ass is the tendency to dwell in the past as opposed to recognizing that, in my humble opinion, TODAY, right now, is the absolute best period of time ever in Latin Jazz!