Inspiration serves as the first steps of a musician’s journey, emerging as the pre-cursor to a long road towards a greater concept. Technical development and musical experience helps artists grab these little flashes of inspiration and persistence allows them to nurture their ideas. The leap from idea to broad concept requires a few more pieces of the puzzle though, requiring the musician to maintain focus over years. The musician needs to explore the idea in a variety of contexts, utilizing a variety of different ensembles to experiment. With only a vague idea, the artist doesn’t have any idea where to apply these creative thoughts; they need to simply try their ideas in different places. The musician needs to find a number of different collaborators in the process. Each new set of ears will provide a different perspective upon the music and help refine the idea in a unique way. Some of these musicians will continue as long term partners while others will go their own way, but they will all help shape the greater idea. Most of all, the musician needs to keep their eye on the prize, realizing that over the course of time, their initial inspiration will grow into a defined and personal artistic concept.

After setting a solid musical foundation for himself, trumpet player Gabriel Alegria discovered his muse in the mixture of jazz and Afro-Peruvian rhythms, an idea that became the basis for his future work. Alegria spent his childhood in an artistic environment, watching his grandfather, a well-known author, and his father, a prominent playwright, pursue their creative passions. Once Alegria dove into music and the trumpet, he discovered the same type of dedication, carrying him through high school and conservatory training. With his technical and musicianship skills in tact, Alegria found a steady job with The Lima Philharmonic, a gig that carried him through five years. He steadily found himself more interested in jazz, which led to early experimentations with Afro-Peruvian rhythms. Determined to explore his burgeoning passion, Alegria left the Philharmonic and recruited drummer Hugo Alcázar to form a group. The two musicians found Freddy “Huevito” Lobatón and Laurandrea Leguia, giving them the core of their new Afro-Peruvian Jazz group. The musicians performed together extensively and recorded an early album in 2002, Un Rezo, documenting their first attempts at this new fusion of styles. As they refined their concept, Alegria and his group gathered more momentum, eventually leading them towards the 2007 recording Nuevo Mundo. As the group stepped out into a larger scene, they presented a solid concept that stood apart from the standard Latin Jazz repertoire as new and exciting.

Alegria’s persistent dedication to the blend of jazz and Afro-Peruvian rhythms paid off, evolving into an organic art form with authentic connections to these two genres. In the first piece of our conversation with Alegria, we discussed his early musical development, his first steps into jazz, and the essence of Afro-Peruvian Jazz. As we delve into the second piece of our three part interview, we look at some of the intricacies of Afro-Peruvian Jazz, it’s relationship to the greater Latin Jazz world, and the jazz scene in Peru.

———-
LATIN JAZZ CORNER: When you deal with other forms of Latin Jazz, like Afro-Cuban styles, there’s the very technical aspect of arranging around the clave. Are there those same type of technical elements that go into an Afro-Peruvian arrangement or composition?

GABRIEL ALEGRIA: As opposed to Cuban music and certainly Brazilian music, we don’t have a clave; that doesn’t exist in Afro-Peruvian music. A better way to understand it is to compare it to the swing rhythm used in the ride cymbal in jazz music. If you had to say there was a clave in jazz music, you would say it’s that pattern on the ride cymbal. That pattern is the clave, but whoever is playing it interprets it and changes it around all the time. That’s more where the Afro-Peruvian rhythms lie. If you have a lando pattern, it’s going to be the inspiration for the whole thing and everything’s going to revolve around that pattern, but it’s not going to be a strict thing where everything’s going to have to line up like in Cuban music. So each of these patterns, whether it’s lando, festejo, or whichever rhythm that we’re playing, it’s being used in the way that you would use a ride pattern in jazz. It would just be the thing that kind of gives the aura. Everybody plays on and off of these rhythms, but never just strictly keeping the time.

That’s what makes Afro-Peruvian music different than Afro-Cuban or Brazilian music . . . radically different. When you hear what they call “Latin Jazz” – hopefully at some point I’m going to be able to make a case for changing that term – what they call “Latin Jazz” is usually Afro-Cuban music or Brazilian music. People say Latin Jazz, but what they don’t really realize is that what they’re actually listening to is Afro-Cuban Jazz and Brazilian Jazz. Those sounds are layering. You have the different instruments that are all playing patterns and then on top is a soloist that’s improvising. That’s where the jazz part comes in; the soloist is kind of riding on top of all these set rhythmic patterns. So it’s very charged and it’s very powerful. Whereas in our music, all of these patterns are being toyed with the whole time by all the musicians and interaction. The soloist is playing, but everybody is sort of changing up these patterns based upon what the soloist plays. In that way, it’s a more direct relation to the jazz tradition. We use the same kind of listening and reacting that you would have in the jazz tradition in Afro-Peruvian Jazz. The people that inspired us weren’t really dealing with this. They were dealing with a stage of playing folk music with these more contemporary instruments and this other thing. In that sense, we’re the first band that’s put together this sound, but definitely not in any kind of a vacuum.

LJC: You said something really interesting about making a case for changing the term “Latin Jazz.” What’s your thought on that?

GA: Well, if you go to a jam session, get upon the bandstand and say, “Let’s play a blues, would you kindly play this in American jazz style.” People would just give you a funny look and say, “Well, what do you mean? American jazz style? Do want a straight-ahead thing? Do you want bebop speed? Do you want slow swing? Do you want fast swing? Do you want a backbeat groove? Do you want an ECM feel? What do you want? What do you mean American jazz feel?” That’s actually kind of the equivalent to when people get up on stage and say, “Yea, let’s just play a Latin thing.” And then you’re thinking, “Well, O.K. . . .” And everybody knows what that is interestingly. So it’s not a problem in and of itself; it’s not an issue because everyone does understand what that means. And what that does mean is we’re going to play either straight eighth notes or we’re going to play in an Afro-Cuban style. Sometimes people say, play an Afro-Cuban thing – that means 12/8. So it’s gotten to be where they say Afro-Cuban or they say Latin. When they say Latin, they just mean play straight eighth notes and the bass will either kind of do a tumbao or something like that. So there’s been this creation of this term that also has created a sound.

When we go around to the different schools and do workshops, they’ll have these charts. On the chart that they’re playing with their big band, it says, “Latin” as a descriptor of how they’re supposed to play. So of course, it makes you wonder, “Well, what would they do if it said, American Jazz? Or just American?” What would you do? So in the same way that American gets divided into easy swing, medium swing, fast swing, slow swing, all of that stuff, Latin American Jazz has the same issue. Latin American Jazz should just be what it is, which is Latin American Jazz and each groove has its name. So people should get up and say, “Alright, I want to do a 12/8 Afro-Cuban groove on this” or “I want to do a 12/8 Afro-Peruvian groove on this.” “I want to do a festejo.” I want to do a lando.” “I want to do a bomba.” “I want to do a bolero.” That’s what we should work towards, rather than just kind calling it Latin and then expecting people to know what to do. That gets really difficult.

I would say that’s its all Latin American Jazz, I would say that it’s not necessary Latin Jazz. Then of course, if you’re sensitive about geography, then maybe Latin American doesn’t work because it’s actually Caribbean. So it’s tricky. It’s been tricky for us to accept that we’re going to be filed under Latin Jazz, which is kind of what happens. That’s fine too, because we are, but we’re part of that whole evolution. I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad thing, but maybe what’s important is that for people to understand that it’s kind of an umbrella term – it isn’t a groove, it isn’t a style, it’s just an umbrella term. And then we’re O.K. – if we understand that a song might be in one of the various styles of Latin Jazz, then that’s fine. For people to think of it as a style, I think it’s kind of a problem . . . because it isn’t, it really isn’t. It would be the same as saying “Play this in American jazz style.” It would sort of confuse you.

LJC: You mentioned the album that you recorded earlier that I’ve never actually heard – Un Rezo. What was that?

GA: That was something that we did in 2002. It has the first experiments with this kind of stuff. It also has some material that is not in that style, which is kind of why I’ve let it disappear. Although Un Rezo definitely is of some interest, I haven’t reprinted it because I think the story really starts with Nuevo Mundo. Actually, on the Kickstarter site, one of our rewards is a couple of tracks from that album, which have the first lando that we were doing. It’s got one of Laurandrea’s tunes and one of my tunes. So there’s stuff where we experimented for the first time and recorded it. It’s there, but it’s still the beginning stages of it; the language isn’t as clear as it is with Nuevo Mundo. I let it just kind of sit, because I didn’t want to confuse people. Maybe once we have twenty albums, we can say, “This was the first one!” And then everyone will be like, “Oh! Of course!” Right now, I’d be afraid that it would start to go and confuse people in terms of how we’re trying to present the style. It’s a nice record, but I think it just has too many tunes that aren’t in any kind of zone.

LJC: So that had the core of the four people that you mentioned started the band?

GA: Well actually, no. The 2002 release was just the three of us – it was Hugo, Laurandrea, and myself. It had a different cajon player and a different bass player. Jorge Reyes is actually on that album; he’s getting to be really well known now. And there’s a pianist – at the time I was still using a piano, which I don’t use anymore. It had all these other colors and things going on there. We are going to have a couple of those tracks available with the Kickstarter thing. Then the new albums are the ones that kind of represent what we’re trying to do.

LJC: Was that album done in Peru?

GA: Yes, everything was done in Peru on that one.

LJC: What was the jazz scene like at that and how has it grown?

GA: The music scene in general is extremely, extremely eclectic in Peru. Of course, everybody says that about every music scene, but more specifically in Peru, it’s eclectic in each instrumentalist. By virtue of the way the market works down there, any one Peruvian musician needs to really be able to play a variety of styles. There’s not as much specialization as there is here. In New York, musicians really dig into one niche. Whereas in Peru, one gig will be straight-ahead jazz, the next gig will be Afro-Cuban music in some Cuban establishment, the next gig will be guaylas from the mountains of Peru – and it will be the same people playing all these different things. That’s kind of the way that they radio is too. People think in Los Angeles or New York or whatever there’s a lot of variety, but it’s really nothing compare to the extremes that you get when you flip through the dial in Peru. You get these crazy micro-tonal musics from the jungle and then this crazy pentatonic pan flute kind of things, then the Afro-Peruvian things, then rock and pop and salsa, and all the other Caribbean music that gets imported – it’s just crazy. Meanwhile, the musicians are learning all this stuff to be able to have work. So that’s kind of where all the musicians are coming from. It makes them very, very versatile. One of the things Alex Acuña always says it that, you know, he can just sing them a rhythm and they pick it right up. Whereas, when he’s working in Los Angeles in the studios, it sometimes takes forever to explain to somebody what he wants, because they don’t have any flexibility to just kind of adapt. There’s pros and cons to that, but I would just kind of say that the scene is very eclectic. So a jazz club isn’t really a jazz club, a pop club is not really a pop club. They’re always going to have these other things just popping in and out of their programs. It’s an exciting thing. It’s a really rich thing. If you’re ever there, you go out in a week and you’ll just be stretched to these outer limits of your listening, just in the city of Lima. Let alone if you go out into the mountains or the jungle or something. That’s kind of how it is.

LJC: That’s really interesting, because here in the States, there’s a lot of that specialization. Very traditional jazz musicians like Wynton Marsalis are very down on certain elements of jazz, but it sounds like that doesn’t exist there. So what does jazz look like with so much cross-pollinating?

GA: The upside is that there is this open-minded thing where anything goes and it can be very, very creative. The down side is that . . . there’s something to be said for all the great work that Wynton Marsalis does. He really digs in to preserve a certain kind of sound for the benefit of everybody. If somebody doesn’t do that then that sound sort of can dissipate or get lost to lack of hipness. So Wynton has done a really good job in preserving that very strong tradition and that’s important. Whereas in a scene like Lima, jazz becomes this very generic term, almost how I’m complaining about the Latin thing. You talk to a musician in Peru and he may say, “Play this in jazz.” That may be something that a musician that knows what he’s doing may actually say, just because they don’t have a clear understanding of what jazz even means. I did a gig with a really great rock band, and it was like that. They were like, “Can you play this more jazz?” I had no idea exactly what they meant, but they were trying to get at something. They didn’t have the language to say something like, “Can you swing the eighth notes?” or something that somebody here would definitely be able to say.

So that’s kind of the downside – there’s not as much knowledge about the basics, which is also a problem with the people working on Afro-Peruvian Jazz music in Peru. They don’t have quite enough of the jazz background. Sometimes what they do ends up sounding more like a glorified world music type of thing, which is again, great, and it has it’s place. The idea that you’re doing Afro-Peruvian Jazz, I think should involve a knowledge of this tradition of jazz as well as a knowledge of Peruvian music. Musicians use elements that are actually really competents in those areas, so that the result is a very balanced hybrid and not some kind of random hodge-podge of things. It’s like cooking, you know? You have these ingredients and you can’t just throw them in the pot. The best chef really puts the right amount of each thing and it’s a perfect balance. So you’re Ceviche has to have the exact right amount of lemon, and the fish has to be fresh, and the peppers have to be just so, and the cilantro not so much because then it gets the juice too green . . . that’s exactly what this music is like and if people don’t realize that, then sometimes the result is not where it needs to be.

The biggest question we get is “How do you get the sound?” Unfortunately, the answer is, “Well, you have Huevito Lobatón, who’s lived the tradition of Afro-Peruvian music, and you have us, who have done all the possible studying we can, and we keep doing it, to understand how jazz music works, and we all come together.” It’s a commitment – it’s a really, really big commitment. So that’s where it is.

———-
Support The Release Of Pucusana!
Gabriel Alegria And The Afro-Peruvian Sextet will be releasing their latest recording, Pucusana in August of 2010, but they need your support to send this album out into the world in a big way. The group will be utilizing a fantastic fundraising site, Kickstarter, to build support for the promotion, release, and distribution of the recording. The process works much like a public radio fund drive – the group has 90 days to raise their goal of $9,000 and they need your support. Along the way, there’s some great rewards for donating and a chance to become part of the Afro-Peruvian Sextet’s family. This is a great way to help push Afro-Peruvian Jazz out into the public eye, so head on over to the group’s Kickstarter site, get the full details, and donate today!

———-
Make sure that you read Part One of our conversation with Afro-Peruvian Jazz pioneer Gabriel Alegria. We talk to Alegria about his early musical development, his first steps into jazz, and the essence of Afro-Peruvian Jazz. Check it out HERE.

Check back tomorrow for the last piece of our interview, which includes info on the new album, the Kickstarter project, and more! Don’t miss it!

———-
Check Out These Related Posts:
Latin Jazz Conversations: Andy Gonzalez (Part 1)
Exploring Latin Jazz: 2 Modern Latin Jazz Artists In Peru
Latin Jazz Conversations: John Calloway (Part 1)
Spotlight: Para Los Engreidos, Manante

———-
Click here to have these posts delivered via email. Or, click here to subscribe to the full text RSS feed and never miss another post!

Stumble it!